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Munawar
Admin Group
Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 6189 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Topic: The "Kill" Verses in the QuranPosted: 03 June 2005 at 12:38pm |
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This keeps coming up, so I want to answer it once and for all. For the people who feel that the Quran is full of verses that call for the killing of all Non-Musims, please post them here. We will explain these verses in context, and background.
My statement is this: Islam does not allow the killing of any man, except for justice, in defence or for a just cause. Munawar |
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Munawar@Whyislam.org
http://www.whyislam.org | ||||||||||
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David
Sophmore Member
Location: United States Religion: Christian(Protestant) Posts: 430 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 03 June 2005 at 3:44pm |
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Munawar: Sounds like this may have the making of a good post. Could you please expand on the following: 1)except for justice 2) for a just cause? I'm especially interested in knowing how just cause is defined in Islam. Thanks.
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In Christ, David.
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Guests
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Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 03 June 2005 at 3:47pm |
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David, put the verses here and Munawar (or someone else) will explain the justice or good cause mentioned. Good thread, Munawar! |
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David
Sophmore Member
Location: United States Religion: Christian(Protestant) Posts: 430 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 03 June 2005 at 4:05pm |
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I don't have my Qur'an yet. I have ordered one, but it's not here. I have no verses to include with my post. Can't the concept be explained? |
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In Christ, David.
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Naadir Muhammed
Undergraduate
Location: United States Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 1788 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 03 June 2005 at 4:35pm |
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As one can see as the verses are quoted indvidually and in context, one will see a different outcome. |
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There is only one death, so let it be in the path of Allah"
Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (RH) |
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Munawar
Admin Group
Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 6189 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 03 June 2005 at 5:18pm |
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Originally posted by David
1)except for justice Hi David, Justice is when someone has wronged another or the government. Then there must be punishment/retribution/purification. If one man kills another for no reason, then he is killed in turn. This is death by justice. Originally posted by David
2)for a just cause? If the Muslim government finds there is extensive good in killing someone for the greater good of society, then this a just cause. Just cause requires a government, and extensive deliberation. It is not an easy principle to apply, nor one used very often. I included it for the sake of completeness. Munawar |
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Munawar@Whyislam.org
http://www.whyislam.org |
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onestop
Freshman
Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 184 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 04 June 2005 at 9:39am |
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PK, where are you PK, now that this thread is open, please put something here. But i suggest we do it one at a time and explain it slowly so that we can explain them as clearly as possible, step by step. (i mean they, not we.) Please don't display 100 or 1000 verses in one shot!! we are only human too! (again they, not we.) |
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Pastor Marty
Sophmore Member
Religion: Christian(Baptist) Posts: 48 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 05 June 2005 at 3:43am |
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4:88-91 Allah misguides the unbelievers, so don't bother trying to convert them. 88 What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road. Don't have any unbeliever friends. Better yet slaughter them, unless they are living with your allies (other Muslims breaking this rule?). 89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, 90 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, If you find people who don't belong to any particular group, kill them unless they first offer peace or submit, because they most likely hate you. 91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant. |
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2 Chronicles 15:13 Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
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Nabil
Graduate
Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1945 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 05 June 2005 at 4:53am |
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As-salamu'alaykum,
.... and we look to the example of the life of the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) to learn how to properly carry out the commands Qur'an. wassalam, Nabil..... |
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"And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him on the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)"? (Quran46:5) |
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Proud Kafir
Freshman
Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 138 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 05 June 2005 at 9:55am |
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Originally posted by Nabil
As-salamu'alaykum, .... and we look to the example of the life of the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) to learn how to properly carry out the commands Qur'an. wassalam, Nabil..... Please don't follow your prophet. It is better to not follow him. Edited by Proud Kafir |
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jesus-follower
Graduate
Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 1197 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 05 June 2005 at 10:18am |
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The Security of Life and Property
In the address which the Prophet delivered on the occasion of the Farewell Hajj, he said: "Your lives and properties are forbidden to one another till you meet your Lord on the Day of Resurrection." God Almighty has laid down in the Holy Quran: "Anyone who kills a believer deliberately will receive as his reward (a sentence) to live in Hell for ever. God will be angry with him and curse him, and prepare dreadful torment for him" (4:93). The Prophet has also said about the dhimmis (the non-Muslim citizens of the Along with security of life, Islam has with equal clarity and definiteness conferred the right of security of ownership of property, as mentioned earlier with reference to the address of the Farewell Hajj. On the other hand, the Holy Quran goes so far as to declare that the taking of people's possessions or property is completely prohibited unless they are acquired by lawful means as permitted in the Laws of God. The Law of God categorically declares "Do not devour one another's wealth by false and illegal means" (2:188).
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sisterjay
Senior Member
Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 355 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 05 June 2005 at 6:32pm |
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Assalamu alaikum,
Edited by sisterjay |
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Munawar
Admin Group
Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 6189 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 06 June 2005 at 3:56pm |
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Hello Marty,
Thanks for listing these verses. Here is the explanation for them: Originally posted by Pastor Marty
4:88-91 Allah misguides the unbelievers, so don't bother trying to convert them. 88 What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road. The verses states "when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned", the key words being "What they earned". Meaning they did such bad things, that Allah led them astray. There is nothing "evil" about these verses. Simply, "You reap what you sow". Originally posted by Pastor Marty
Don't have any unbeliever friends. Better yet slaughter them, unless they are living with your allies (other Muslims breaking this rule?). 89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, The verse was revealed about Muslims who left at the last minute before the Battle of Uhad. You can get more details here: http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11879 Basically - it is speaking of treacherous Muslims. And how to differentiate between the good and the bad. This is not an open call to kill everyone. Information: 1. The disbelievers want you to be evil like them 2. Don't be friends with them, until they prove they are "good Muslims" by emigrating in the name of Allah 3. If they turn back (leave Islam) then kill them. Originally posted by Pastor Marty
If you find people who don't belong to any particular group, kill them unless they first offer peace or submit, because they most likely hate you. 91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant. A better translation: "Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. " 1. There are people that will pay lip service, but whenever they are offered money they will turn against you. If they do not leave your land, or give you a peace treaty, then kill them, because they are treacherous. This is not kill everyone. Only against those that are trecherous. Edited by Munawar |
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Munawar@Whyislam.org
http://www.whyislam.org |
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Preacher
Sophmore Member
Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 92 Forum Rating: 0 |
Rating: 0 of 0 votes ![]() Posted: 02 July 2005 at 8:56pm |
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Contents removed (post removed) per advise of Munawar (Admin Group). Perhaps confronting the falsifier/accuser is not the policy of this forum. Preacher Edited by Preacher |
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